[18:18] Tenshi Love (eiko.zeffirelli): there is transfer of power from the top to the bottom. Such a transfer can happen in three ways.
[18:19] Tenshi Love (eiko.zeffirelli): Power over is the first type of power transfer: The will of the dominant is imposed on the submissive.
[18:20] Tenshi Love (eiko.zeffirelli): It's classic, but i's not good on the long run, because there is no space for the submissive to express herself.
[18:21] Tenshi Love (eiko.zeffirelli): Power under is the second type of power exchange: everything is negotiated from the submissive
[18:21] Tenshi Love (eiko.zeffirelli): it isn't good either, because...
[18:23] BrittaneyAnne: under first you said she cant express herself
[18:23] BrittaneyAnne: but cant she if she is given that opportunity or question asking
[18:26] Tenshi Love (eiko.zeffirelli): Power over is a classical type of power exchange. In it the top projects her power on the bottom. That is called "power over." However, when the top's power is imposed over the sub, without space for the sub to have her own space, there is the risk that the power transfer becomes all about the dominant. One sided, so to speak
18:29] Ash (ash.yheng) tilts her head, considering Tenshi's words for a moment. "I'd say that's a fair assessment. In fact, if that -works- for the pair in question I'd even go so far as to say that it fits a different model than submission. To me, submission requires an element of active decision-making, and if the Dominant so completely controls the situation that the sub's decisions are unimportant then it fits at least one definition of the Mistress-slave relationship."
[18:29] Ash (ash.yheng): And although some aspire to such a relationship for romantic reasons, I'd say that for most pairings it's not particularly desirable.
[18:29] Tenshi Love (eiko.zeffirelli): We can get into that as well Ash.
[18:30] Ash (ash.yheng) chuckles and nods, eyes twinkling. "I ... ~ahem~ ... tend to jump into such discussions."
[18:31] Tenshi Love (eiko.zeffirelli): Power under is another type of power transfer dynamics: everything is negotiated with the bottom. It is supposed to empower the bottom to open up and have a voice, but there is the risk that such a dynamic becomes as lopsided as power over. The submissive gets all the gratification, and the dominant feels like she has no leeway to experiment.
[18:31] Tenshi Love (eiko.zeffirelli): There is a third type:
[18:31] Ash (ash.yheng) nods. "High burnout factor for the DOmmes too."
[18:34] Tenshi Love (eiko.zeffirelli): Power with is a form of power exchange dynamics where there is space for a bit of power-over and a bit of power-under. More commonly known as "give-and-take". This form of exchange is te most effective: It gives the top the chance to lead the sub *without*overpowering her, and it gives submissives space for the expression of their needs in a controlled way.
[18:35] Tenshi Love (eiko.zeffirelli): win win
[18:37] Elisandra Foxdale: I'm always amused by the the expression TPE, total power exchange, because the word exchange lends itself much more to the Power with model, while TPE is often used to describe the power over model. I agree that Power with, or a true exchanges is best. I like to think of it in terms of the slave being valued by the owner, and that value being in part from the slave thriving in her place.
[18:41] Ash (ash.yheng) nods softly at Eli's reply and Tenshi's response. "To me, D/s is not just about power, but also about allowing the oft-repressed parts of our personalities out to play. If we define the norms of D/s too rigidly, we risk repressing some people further. Of course, a balance has to be found with creating a safe, low harm environment."
[18:41] Tenshi Love (eiko.zeffirelli): Because in certain circles of BDSM *coughsGorcoughs* there is the mystique that submissives hae NO power whatsoever and must take whatever comes to them, whatever it is.
[18:42] Tenshi Love (eiko.zeffirelli): that mystique is *FALSE*