Thursday, October 22, 2015
Fawn's family discussion 10/10/2015
[2015/10/10 12:11] Fawn Starflare: One thing my girls and I have discussed over the week is how things look different from inside and outside the family. We have what appears to be very strict ownership, control, and discipline. However, it functions because we each give to the others what they desire. My girls do not want control so I make choices for them. They want to be kept on leash, and there is nothing I love more. Walking around with my three or four girls on leash is a trip. And If I take them to a restaurant and keep them bound and hand feed them in public, they love it as much as I do. But it works because they turn over control and generally do not try to wrest it back. If they do, well there will be a struggle of will. I will come out on top and there will be "punishments" but we've all had fun. In a way, from the inside, it does not really look so much like BDSM or as the middle two letters indicate, D/s.
[2015/10/10 12:17] Fawn Starflare: The power is given over consensually. It's different from the fantasies and dreams where you get kidnapped or taken in some way and are physically forced into captivity and your mind and body forcibly trained. That is something we roleplay occasionally, but it would not have made my family work for over three years.
[2015/10/10 12:21] Fawn Starflare: In the past I would refer to my subs as girls. However, they have all come to enjoy total objectification. It started with dragon liking being a doll and my not knowing how to handle that and not really wanting it. Over time I came to find my own joys in it. I've always like hoods, especially ones that make the submissive faceless. No obvious identity. And SL hoods I did not like at one time I have come to enjoy precisely because the level of anonymity enables great objectification. This is an example of the Mistress Growing and Changing to meet the sub's needs. Once I would have been ashamed of this, wondering if I was a "real" domme.
[2015/10/10 12:25] Fawn Starflare: Now I see that I am precisely fulfilling the role. I now understand my toy's needs and how to use them to ensure she remains in complicity in her "slavery." And girls that see us, and the few that have joined us, they are changed by what they see, because my treatment of dragon, and her response came so easily that the framework of love is readily visible.
[2015/10/10 12:28] Fawn Starflare: I do not know about others, but I came to SL looking for a steady, loving, intimate relationship. I knew it had to include D/s and bondage. I know from RL I am not happy without these things. It helps that though dragon was seemingly the girl who could take anything, that she wanted the same things, a loving relationship where she would be of service to her lover/Mistress (eventually wife).
[2015/10/10 12:28] Cyndy (dayzeemai): Fawn I think you've made a very good point. If a relationship/family is to work long term, then it requires adjustment by all the parties. The details will differ but both Domme and subs have to recognize the need.
[2015/10/10 12:30] Becky S. Rexie (becky.koolhoven): our family life is based on respect and care, I live with two dommes and we all understand how interlaced we are, how we need each other to form a solid unit, one that is aimed at having a good life
[2015/10/10 12:32] Fawn Starflare: Now there is one last point about what I have learned about the difference between RL and SL. I have owned a slave in RL before I ever really started being an online Mistress. In RL there are some things one does that we only play at in SL. I can administer a hellish spanking, whipping or cropping. I can physically hold someone who is rebellious. But there is this fantasy that in SL a "REAL" dome can control and compel submission. 'I've come to the conclusion this is a load of hogwash. The sub can always get up and leave, an option that RL might not provide. Moreover, if I held someone's mind in such thrall that she could not leave, I (me) would be worried about her mental health.
[2015/10/10 12:35] Delora SL Boardman (delorab): lol
[2015/10/10 12:35] Delora SL Boardman (delorab): I'd say what is a real Domme then? What a real one is for one can be different for another.
[2015/10/10 12:36] Fawn Starflare: That is very true, Delora. Extremely so. We had a ruckus last week over the word slave, and what it means. But women who want to have no self-determination at all, and who truly want to be forced look for a different kind of dominant than I am. I could not be that kind of dominant.
[2015/10/10 12:39] Fawn Starflare: As to different notions of "real" dom/me. I think at The Cellar we have sort of a consensus. Most of us, Domme or sub, desire a relationship where love, and desire to be in one role or the other (even for switches) is what holds us together. I have found that girls that hang out with my family and me, tend to be willing to try blindness, and total loss of control, and other things they normally would not do,
[2015/10/10 12:43] Fawn Starflare: I think this happens because of who I am and the respect I give, and because they see what happens between my toys and I and want a taste.
When I met ekatarina, long term bondage, blindness, and many other things were on her list of absolute limits. And somehow after hanging around with us for a few weeks, and interacting with dragon and nilla, she suddenly wanted to be an it and to be held captive for as long as I wished to hold her.
[2015/10/10 12:44] Becky S. Rexie (becky.koolhoven): nice accomplishments Fawn, congrats :) can you give us some pointers in how You achieved them?
[2015/10/10 12:46] Fawn Starflare: playtoy, would you like to say anything about that sudden turnaround, why you were willing to let me do stuff you would not permit anyone else to do. It happened so fast I found it hard to believe or trust.
[2015/10/10 12:49] Ekaterina Urstein (arsanerit): well, there are several factors, Goddess.The first is that you know what to do, the second you're committed and finally the feeling of safety. Given how deeply Dragony trusts you, it seemed natural to it to jump on the water of its curiosity. It always wanted to try those things, but you were the first to actually take it that deep and skillfully
[2015/10/10 12:49] Fawn Starflare: I think the first part of my formula is the respect I accord to every submissive (which for me that includes those who would be slaves).
[2015/10/10 12:50] Ekaterina Urstein (arsanerit): In other words, it had some barriers, but with you it never felt them
[2015/10/10 12:52] Fawn Starflare: Well to continue. I have always wanted to live in the life style. I take it seriously. This meant I have always been committed to improving my interpersonal skill. I offer respect at first meeting, and give it until a girl gives cause for me to let go of it, and I do that reluctantly.
[2015/10/10 12:54] Becky S. Rexie (becky.koolhoven): Tessa, come closer, my boots miss you and gwen needs company also
[2015/10/10 12:55] ღ Ţєşşa Romanov ღ (tessaromanov) smiles hugely and obeys
[2015/10/10 12:55] Fawn Starflare: What Becky just did is a perfect example of how one gets subs to pay attention. She observed a need and offered to fulfill it by presenting it as a quasi-order. I say quasi order because if the sub chooses not to respond in kind, no one looses face. Becky illustrated something else I find very important. Wanting to see what your subs, and the subs around you need.
[2015/10/10 12:56] Becky S. Rexie (becky.koolhoven) smiles and teases the girls with her boots
[2015/10/10 12:58] Fawn Starflare: My girls watch my moods, and know when to nuzzle me, or to behave a bit impudently to provide an opportunity for play and the semblance of having to apply force.
[2015/10/10 12:59] Delora SL Boardman (delorab): nods as is the other way around as well. some days as Mistress it's better to not play but to just hold them.
[2015/10/10 12:59] Fawn Starflare: Another thing that I find helpful is my RL experience. It allows me to do two different things. The first is helping submissives to understand what happens to a body or a mind in RL when certain things are done. This enables them to RP better and to get deeper into the play.
Most of us know what a Spanish horse is, or riding the horse... i.e. sitting on a pointed or narrow board, by itself or part of a wedge. But the reason it is called a horse is more elusive. When you sit on it in RL it poses a challenge.... Whether to sit on it and allow your clit and pussy to be numbed and hurt by carrying all your weight on such a small area, or whether to try to support your weight by squeezing your legs together and giving your clit a break. In a relatively short time the sub is alternating fair rapidly, and the up and down motion is similar to that of riding a horse.
[2015/10/10 13:04] Agito (agitobell): mhmmm. if i may Miss, i have been on one in RL
[2015/10/10 13:04] Fawn Starflare: Is the description accurate? (It's always good to have someone with experience speak up!)
[2015/10/10 13:06] Agito (agitobell): not quite, most of the horses have a wider ball and some have rests for your knees to take weight if it hurts to much
[2015/10/10 13:06] Fawn Starflare nods
[2015/10/10 13:06] Fawn Starflare: Agito is speaking about sometimes there being a way to rest your weight on your knees. It does get extremely painful, as she says. A bondage where the riders heels are bound to her thighs is extremely punishing and cannot be held for long.
[2015/10/10 13:07] Agito (agitobell): most have pegs for your subs, if its a good one, so we can relieve pressure if it hurts too much, and most have rounded tops where you sit so its not crippling
[2015/10/10 13:07] Fawn Starflare: Precisely. And the point of talking about this is not that play has to mimic reality, But that knowing this can improve the enjoyment and roleplay of both domme and sub
[2015/10/10 13:09] Agito (agitobell): in SL you can go much longer on those type of toys than RL
[2015/10/10 13:09] Fawn Starflare: If playing with agito and at first offering no respite, I gain a lot of love the moment I allow her to rest on her knees or slide a thin cushion in there, depending on how you play, however agito is quite correct. Thank you for speaking up, agito. That was most appreciated.
[2015/10/10 13:10] Agito (agitobell) blushes nodding
[2015/10/10 13:11] Fawn Starflare: There are lots of little touches that can be added by paying attention to the needs of one's partner in the RP. I am always pointing out effects on bodies so my girls RP is more meaningful to both of us and their RP improves.
[2015/10/10 13:17] Fawn Starflare: The "horse" is one of many forms of PREDICAMENT bondage. And SL need not mimic RL. However predicament bondage only works when the choices are very obvious. Physical devices have a way of presenting the predicament very clearly. In SL when we RP it is useful to make sure everyone understands the predicament. Then domme, sub, and voyeurs all understand. so attention to detail is important.
[2015/10/10 13:19] Agito (agitobell) nods
[2015/10/10 13:20] Fawn Starflare: Excuse me for a second. Dragon, are you up for another sleepless night? Curious story. I owned dragon in RL before I did in SL. Her Mistress did not care to claim her self bondage. I just took it away from her and told her from now on I would direct her self bondage and that if I didn't assign it, she couldn't.
[2015/10/10 13:33] Fawn Starflare: What I do not mention because it goes without saying is that she is always gagged, and then an eyeless hood worn.
[2015/10/10 13:34] Fawn Starflare: So she sleeps in what my toys and I call the Silent Dark.
[2015/10/10 13:34] Delora SL Boardman (delorab): ohh yikes
[2015/10/10 13:34] Fawn Starflare: And this is where having sisters (multiple subs) is wonderful.
[2015/10/10 13:34] Fawn Starflare: They "infect" each other.
[2015/10/10 13:34] A-Toy slutdoll (dragony.darkfury) nods
[2015/10/10 13:35] Delora SL Boardman (delorab): I go crazy when that will happen
[2015/10/10 13:35] Fawn Starflare: Seeing how much one or more of her sisters like something induces newer subs to try them.
[2015/10/10 13:36] Fawn Starflare: A lot of my being a successful domme is about being able to sense when the best thing to do is nothing. That is allow sisterhood to do its work.
[2015/10/10 13:36] Fawn Starflare: Delora, are you speaking as a top or a bottom?
[2015/10/10 13:37] Delora SL Boardman (delorab): Lol well if I would have had that happen with me I'd go crazy... but if my sub would find it comforting I can do that..
[2015/10/10 13:37] Fawn Starflare: Amen.
[2015/10/10 13:37] Fawn Starflare: Same issue I have faced over and over.
[2015/10/10 13:38] Fawn Starflare: I have learned to RP a very effective and scary Sadist for my girls.
[2015/10/10 13:38] A-Toy slutdoll (dragony.darkfury) smiles
[2015/10/10 13:38] Fawn Starflare: It was a question of living up to their needs.
[2015/10/10 13:38] Delora SL Boardman (delorab): I have found I can do a lot more if I know my girl enjoys it even if it doesn't do anything for me
[2015/10/10 13:38] Fawn Starflare: A lot of BDSM is like that.
[2015/10/10 13:38] Delora SL Boardman (delorab): but then I like to please my girls
[2015/10/10 13:38] Delora SL Boardman (delorab): it's the submissive heart I have
[2015/10/10 13:39] Fawn Starflare: My girls will do anything for me because (1) they know deep down they are always safe, and (2) during play is feels totally unsafe and uncontrolled.
[2015/10/10 13:39] Delora SL Boardman (delorab): like with Altra here I had to get used to the fact she wanted me to tell her what to look like exactly...
[2015/10/10 13:39] Fawn Starflare: I think this is what others are aware of when they ask to play with us.
[2015/10/10 13:39] Altrabelle Boardman (altrabelle): I like to be what you want Mistress
[2015/10/10 13:39] Delora SL Boardman (delorab): but we made several shapes now together that enjoy immensely...
[2015/10/10 13:40] Fawn Starflare smiles at altra.
[2015/10/10 13:40] Delora SL Boardman (delorab): She knows now what I love and makes fabulous shapes and such now
[2015/10/10 13:40] Fawn Starflare: We resemble each other quite alot in this regard, Altra.
[2015/10/10 13:41] Fawn Starflare: And I think, in this particular club, this is defined as being a Real, caring Mistress, one worth serving.
[2015/10/10 13:41] Fawn Starflare: Other clubs promote different profiles, but this is what it is at The Cellar.
[2015/10/10 13:41] Delora SL Boardman (delorab): smiles
[2015/10/10 13:41] Fawn Starflare strokes ata's hair and leashes her
[2015/10/10 13:42] Delora SL Boardman (delorab): we never started out for her to become mine.. we were just giving her a home a place to be loved and get some rest after the one she was with last and how that ended..
[2015/10/10 13:42] Delora SL Boardman (delorab): But then she became mine in the end.
[2015/10/10 13:42] Altrabelle Boardman (altrabelle) sighs softly feeling the leash click into place
[2015/10/10 13:42] Fawn Starflare smiles at both women.
[2015/10/10 13:42] Delora SL Boardman (delorab): we took her in our family and I can call her mine
[2015/10/10 13:43] Altrabelle Boardman (altrabelle): I never expected that Mistress wanted me the way I grew to want to be hers
[2015/10/10 13:43] Fawn Starflare: with the exception of dragon, this is how it was with me and my three other girls, and a few who are frequently with us, e.g. ada.
[2015/10/10 13:44] Delora SL Boardman (delorab) smiles
[2015/10/10 13:44] Delora SL Boardman (delorab): we started our family just with the two of us
[2015/10/10 13:44] Delora SL Boardman (delorab): now we have our own little village
[2015/10/10 13:44] Fawn Starflare: I went through a progression.
[2015/10/10 13:44] Fawn Starflare: At first I resembles a collector.
[2015/10/10 13:44] Altrabelle Boardman (altrabelle): but to your other point, a good D/s balance grows as both learn of the other, their likes, dislikes, kinks. SOme things are amazingly hot with one partner which might be bland or distasteful with another
[2015/10/10 13:44] Fawn Starflare: I would take in girls simply because they needed to be owned.
[2015/10/10 13:45] Delora SL Boardman (delorab): My wife and myself it started growing when I wanted to discover my Domme side and we attract switches so it grows quickly then.
[2015/10/10 13:45] Fawn Starflare: But they would disappear and I felt awfull about the turn over.
[2015/10/10 13:45] Delora SL Boardman (delorab) nods at Altra's comment
[2015/10/10 13:45] Fawn Starflare: Then I learned to collar fewer so the others got more time and attention.
[2015/10/10 13:46] Fawn Starflare: Then I learned to select for loyalty and willgness to be there for me, not for socializing.
[2015/10/10 13:46] Delora SL Boardman (delorab): well that sounds better.. we will give some that need a safe place a place at our home...
[2015/10/10 13:46] Delora SL Boardman (delorab): not with the intention of collaring.. like at first I didn't know Altra at all
[2015/10/10 13:47] Altrabelle Boardman (altrabelle): Yes you never pressured me to take the collar, You waited till I was almost begging for it
[2015/10/10 13:47] Fawn Starflare: Or, Altra, thisngs that were bland become hot because you are with the right partner, the one that can put you in your submissive place so you can enjoy it.
[2015/10/10 13:47] Delora SL Boardman (delorab): laughs
[2015/10/10 13:47] Fawn Starflare: There are things I find I love that I was never comfortable with before dragon.
[2015/10/10 13:48] Delora SL Boardman (delorab) bites Altra's ear as I listen to Miss Fawn...
[2015/10/10 13:48] Fawn Starflare: And it was sextoy that really made me comfortable with objectification. And slutdoll benefited greatly from that
[2015/10/10 13:48] Delora SL Boardman (delorab): oh we've been talking about that too
[2015/10/10 13:48] Delora SL Boardman (delorab): not sure how to yet so we went for this midway
[2015/10/10 13:48] Altrabelle Boardman (altrabelle) moans and squirms, looking back at her beloved Mistress, I" know my tastes are more extreme than Mistress was used to"
[2015/10/10 13:49] Delora SL Boardman (delorab) grins and I surprised her as well
[2015/10/10 13:49] Delora SL Boardman (delorab): she always thought I was the sweet loving kind without any kinky sides
[2015/10/10 13:49] Fawn Starflare: That is how it was for me with Dragon.
[2015/10/10 13:50] Fawn Starflare: She needed me to play a very nasty sadist. I needed her to become TPE. We each learned from and accommodated the other.
[2015/10/10 13:50] Altrabelle Boardman (altrabelle) gigles, "I was very wrong, our first hardcore scene left me dizzy"
[2015/10/10 13:50] Altrabelle Boardman (altrabelle): That may have been the blood loss too....
[2015/10/10 13:51] Fawn Starflare: The fantasy stories we read, the girls if forced to become what the captor desires. But in a long term relationship it happens differently.
[2015/10/10 13:51] Fawn Starflare: Subs and dommes learn to become what the other needs.
[2015/10/10 13:51] Delora SL Boardman (delorab): nods
[2015/10/10 13:51] Fawn Starflare: The D/s is that one is obedient to the other. but in all other respects it is a vanilla relationship.
[2015/10/10 13:51] Fawn Starflare: Bot learn to respect and honor the other.
[2015/10/10 13:52] Fawn Starflare: So this is what I believe to be the essence of the "real" domme
[2015/10/10 13:53] Fawn Starflare: Learning to listen, watch, and to react appropriately.
[2015/10/10 13:54] Fawn Starflare: Learning the social skills to lead a party and put your girl in display. She loves being made to perform in public, even being humiliated in public, so give her the chance to shine.
[2015/10/10 13:54] Altrabelle Boardman (altrabelle): I appreciate the quotes, I never liked "Real Domme" or "True Domme" there is no such thing, there is the right one for a certain sub or relationship
[2015/10/10 13:55] Fawn Starflare: My girls learn to love being blindfolded , even in SL... because I have learned to RP in a way that supplies the missing sense of smell and touch and vibrations.
[2015/10/10 13:55] Delora SL Boardman (delorab): mmmm
[2015/10/10 13:56] Ekaterina Urstein (arsanerit) nods, smiling
[2015/10/10 14:05] Fawn Starflare: She taught me to require girls to stay until I dismissed them.
[2015/10/10 14:05] Fawn Starflare: She flatly refused to go until she heard me say the words.
[2015/10/10 14:06] Fawn Starflare: And If I forget to tell her she may cum in the morning she doesn't.
[2015/10/10 14:06] Fawn Starflare: Last Saturday she did not hear me give her her instructions, so the next morning she had missed a night in bondage
[2015/10/10 14:07] Fawn Starflare: Having a sub like that, tend to make me expect more from all my girls.
[2015/10/10 14:07] Fawn Starflare: Now katya has given me her RL bondage and is doing stuff she's never done before.
[2015/10/10 14:07] Ekaterina Urstein (arsanerit): nods, nods
[2015/10/10 14:08] Ekaterina Urstein (arsanerit): it is very happy about that ^_^
[2015/10/10 14:08] Delora SL Boardman (delorab): I learned to bind my arms myself now lol...
[2015/10/10 14:10] Fawn Starflare: Dragon and I are quite cautious. We do things we know are not considered to be safe. But she finds the risk acceptable, and remember, she's Russian, therefore she is quite paranoid.