Fawn Starflare:
You know, that description is a lot like creating a bonsai. Pruning, staking, tying off, directing it's growth. The result is not a doormat, but a slave who evolves to be exactly what I desire, a living individual whose every desire, hope, and action is in service to me and anticipation of my needs, but still an individual with her own mind, personality, and soul.
[12:12] Fawn Starflare: As usual I will start with some remarks and then open the topic for general discussion.
[12:14] Mermaid Stormcrow listens
[12:14] Fawn Starflare: The topic of today's discussion was sparked by a beautiful quote sent to me sunday evening, by our own elisandra.
[12:15] Fawn Starflare: I shares it with toy and others and a short discussion ensued.
[12:15] A-Toy-Dragon (dragony.darkfury) nods
[12:15] Fawn Starflare: You can see that on the placard to my left in front of the fireplace.
[12:16] Fawn Starflare: The text in the placard is on a notecard. Just touch the placard for a copy of the card.
[12:16] Fawn Starflare: I will give you all a few minutes to read the the card.
[12:16] Bonsai Analogy owned by Fawn Starflare. gave you 'Bonsai analogy of BDSM'
Elisandra Foxdale:
((Written by a lovely slave 'anonymous' - i couldn't help but steal it. thank you))
Submission is not a gift from a slave to her Mistress, her Domme, it is her natural estate to be a slave. The submission is taken from her as the Domme's natural right, and the slave surrenders totally. The slave holds nothing back, gives her all, is molded by her Domme to suit her, and the slave tries to become a perfect fit for her Domme.
Everything the Domme would consider unsatisfactory or undesirable is removed from both the slave's personality and soul. The surrender goes further until, in love and devotion to her Domme, the will of the slave is totally subsumed. She effectively ceases to exist except as an extension of her Mistress's power and elan, will and pleasure.
Each slave lives for that exquisite moment of utter surrender. This is the true locking of the collar that can never again be unlocked, except by death.
A-Toy-Dragon:
you did express your desires for your slaves -- for them to be companions, so that rules out complete dissolution and becoming a "doormat".
Fawn Starflare:
You know, that description is a lot like creating a bonsai. Pruning, staking, tying off, directing it's growth. The result is not a doormat, but a slave who evolves to be exactly what I desire, a living individual whose every desire, hope, and action is in service to me and anticipation of my needs, but still an individual with her own mind, personality, and soul.
Elisandra Foxdale:
Yes, I agree. I would not go quite as far as to say the girl dies or disappears, I like your description better.
Fawn Starflare:
For me this is a spiritual thing. I have a calling from Great Spirit to heal. For some people this is the healing they need, otherwise I am a destroyer.
[12:16] Mermaid Stormcrow: cool
[12:19] Fawn Starflare: Has everyone had a chance to read the quote.
[12:19] Carla (cyberspy): yes
[12:19] Mermaid Stormcrow nods
[12:19] Brenda Connolly: Affirmative
[12:20] Fawn Starflare: I have to tell you that my heart kind of seized up and went cold when I got to the part where it says the sub ceases to exists except as an extension of the Mistress.
[12:20] Mermaid Stormcrow: Yes, mine did too!!
[12:20] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov) nods
[12:20] Fawn Starflare: I've owned a slave 24/7 in RL for two years.
[12:21] Fawn Starflare: There is nothing casual about it though we like to pretend it is.
[12:21] Fawn Starflare: So spiritually I have issues with the sentiment expressed by the anonymous slave.
[12:21] Fawn Starflare: On the other hand, this is a drama/ fantasy held by so many of us.
[12:22] Fawn Starflare: Yet for a sub, especially one focused on sexy play, this does not apply at all.
[12:23] Mermaid Stormcrow reflects on the words
[12:23] Fawn Starflare: However, as I read it and tried to address my misgivings, something crystallized for me.
[12:23] Fawn Starflare: The process described of making the slave (or sub) an extension of the dominate is very much like training a bonsai tree.
[12:24] Fawn Starflare: Genetically it's all there in the tree, already.
[12:24] Fawn Starflare: It is for the gardener to so see the potential and then slowly, gradually train the tree.
[12:25] Fawn Starflare: Over grown branches are pruned.
[12:25] Fawn Starflare: Other branches are bound so they will grow a particular way.
[12:25] Fawn Starflare: It will be rotated in the sun to cause it to grow in certain directions.
[12:26] Fawn Starflare: And over the years it become its potential and the vision of the gardener.
[12:27] Fawn Starflare: Dominants have may ways of training their subs and slaves, but in all cases I think this analogy to the training of the bonsai works.
[12:28] Fawn Starflare: For me, this is particularly true as I see my my relationship with each of my girls as a distinct collaboration.
[12:29] ღ Chrisa Romanov ღ (chrisa.zifer) whispers: hello everyone
[12:29] Mermaid Stormcrow smiles at the newcomers.
[12:30] Fawn Starflare: Girl ask me what I want them to become, but I have no idea until I've gotten to know her well. Her unique psyche, personality, fantasies, all suggest things to me, and I find ways to employ these to satisfy my own whims and fantasies. SO the result is very different from each girl and not at all like the "doormat" that toy and others think of.
[12:30] Fawn Starflare: Hi chrissa and lille!
[12:30] A-Toy-Dragon (dragony.darkfury) nods
[12:31] Fawn Starflare: I think I've given you all food for thought, and there must be reactions, protests, and agreements out there. So lets open this to free discussion. I will step in only to answer questions or keep things on track.
[12:32] Fawn Starflare leans back into her chair and relaxes, her talking hands now resting quietly in her lap.
[12:32] Bevels (bevels) looks for relationships which are mutually beneficial without any give and take
[12:33] Fawn Starflare: O, for the late arrivals, you can have a copy of the text on the plackard just by touching it.
[12:33] A-Toy-Dragon (dragony.darkfury)'s ears twitch in search of sound sources
[12:33] Carla (cyberspy): Sounds very reasonable and not unlike what I do.
[12:33] ღ Chrisa Romanov ღ (chrisa.zifer): ty Miss Fawn
[12:33] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov): i like the concept of collaboration
[12:34] Fawn Starflare: I think most of the "give and take" occurs at the beginning of the relationship for me.
[12:36] Mermaid Stormcrow listens
[12:36] Fawn Starflare: Once that happens, her input is minimal, but I am always watching to see when changes need to be made.
[12:36] Fawn Starflare: So, in a sense, through her personal growth she still has some say in what becomes of her.
[12:36] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov): so one finds someone similar and then collaborates?
[12:37] Bevels (bevels) tends to screen for shared interests and motivations before starting the relationship
[12:37] Fawn Starflare: Not always similar.
[12:37] Etherea Serendipity: Mistress and I are similar, and we collaborate all the time. "Etherea, clean the kitchen." "Yes, Mistress." "Etherea, clean the bath house." "Yes, Mistress......"
[12:37] Fawn Starflare: Sometimes I meet a girl that is quite different, but something attracts me to work with her and see what happens.
[12:37] Fawn Starflare: Hahahahahah
[12:38] Fawn Starflare: Yes, toy and I are like that, too!
[12:38] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov) grins at etherea
[12:38] A-Toy-Dragon (dragony.darkfury) giggles
[12:38] ღ Chrisa Romanov ღ (chrisa.zifer): hmmm...sounds familiar
[12:38] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov): o0
[12:38] Fawn Starflare: But isn't that the way it should be?
[12:38] Fawn Starflare: But keep in mind it's different for each couples.
[12:39] Bevels (bevels) thinks it should be however you and the other person want it to be
[12:39] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov): i had a mistress who seemed to have a clearer idea of who i could be than i did...it was amazing
[12:39] Fawn Starflare: For some domes it's all about the erotic play, or humiliation. Others need a footstool or a living statue. And always you can find a girl who genuinely wants to be that.
[12:40] Fawn Starflare: Exactly, tessa!
[12:40] Etherea Serendipity: It should be the way she wants it because I've given her that prerogative.
[12:40] Brenda Connolly: My girls always have some say in their future..our future. They aren't slaves, they accepted my collar willingly and are free to return it at any time.
[12:41] Fawn Starflare: Of course, but at the same time, while they wear it, you shape them to be what you want. That does not mean you want the same thing from every girl except for basic respect and manners.
[12:41] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov): so the bonzai analogy implies long term vision
[12:41] Fawn Starflare: For me, yes it does.
[12:42] Brenda Connolly: Not what I want, but what I think is best for them. Sometimes the 2 aren't the same
[12:43] Fawn Starflare nods to Brenda, "amen, sister!"
[12:43] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov): ahhh
[12:44] Fawn Starflare: You know in that conversation I said at the end about being a spiritual healer of sorts.
[12:44] Mermaid Stormcrow nods
[12:45] Fawn Starflare: What enables me to give in to my obsession with BDSM is the belief and hope that each of my girls evolves as and becomes a better human being for having been in the relationship.
[12:45] Fawn Starflare: And the teacher, a good teacher, always learns from the student.
[12:45] Fawn Starflare: Knowing toy has changed me, changed my approach, caused me to throw out some ideas that didn't belong, etc.
[12:46] Fawn Starflare: This is may way of finding an ethical basis for D/s relationships and being the dominant.
[12:46] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov): knowing chrisa makes me all fuzzy in the head
[12:47] Fawn Starflare: That's love, baby!
[12:47] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov): *winks
[12:47] Fawn Starflare: A form of chemically induced insanity and compulsion that is oh soooo good!
[12:48] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov): haha
[12:48] A-Toy-Dragon (dragony.darkfury) nuzzles lovingly to Goddess' leg
[12:48] Mermaid Stormcrow laughs
[12:48] ღ Chrisa Romanov ღ (chrisa.zifer): i think you were fuzzy when i met you
[12:48] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov): ugh
[12:48] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov): i'm fuzzier!
[12:49] ღ Chrisa Romanov ღ (chrisa.zifer): maybe a warm bath and shave your legs love
[12:49] Etherea Serendipity: The basis of our relationship is entirely immoral and unethical.
[12:49] Brenda Connolly: But a lot of fun
[12:49] Fawn Starflare: One of the things I observe about relationships... 'in love' is temporary. it gets babies conceived and many other things, but 'in love' does not last. If you want a long lasting relationship it must be based in true love, a caring about the well being of the other over all other things.
[12:50] Etherea Serendipity giggles, "Exactly."
[12:50] Fawn Starflare: That lasts, that makes life-long relationships possible.
[12:50] A-Toy-Dragon (dragony.darkfury) nods
[12:50] ღ Chrisa Romanov ღ (chrisa.zifer): absolutely
[12:50] Mermaid Stormcrow: the metaphor also reminds me of carving by Michelangelo. He saw what was within the stone and cut away what wasn't needed.
[12:51] Fawn Starflare: I know that i have gotten over 'in love' with toy most of the time, but what is left is the deepest caring on both sides.
[12:51] A-Toy-Dragon (dragony.darkfury) smiles
[12:51] Fawn Starflare nods emphatically. "I have always loved his quote about releasing the image from the stone."
[12:52] Mermaid Stormcrow: ah...so the infatuation part - to something real that's been left behind.
[12:52] Etherea Serendipity: In Texas they call that "fracking."
[12:52] Fawn Starflare: hahaha
[12:52] Mermaid Stormcrow: oh we have that here too
[12:52] Fawn Starflare: Sadly, yes.
[12:53] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov): and how do you find the RL/SL changes occurring ...like is changes happen in SL, they must affect RL
[12:53] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov): and do we make goals about RL changes? or just SL behavior
[12:53] Fawn Starflare: I will return for a moment to my thought that this works for all sorts of BDSM relationships.
[12:54] Fawn Starflare: Even if the relationship is mistress sub, and the D/s only exists during sexual play and other role plays.
[12:54] Fawn Starflare: The need to train the sub still remains.
[12:54] Fawn Starflare: And the analogy to training the bonsai still holds.
[12:55] Fawn Starflare: The goal may not be for the girl to be subsumed into the dominant, but there is the gradual achievement turning a mutual fantasy into a rich reality.
[13:02] Fawn Starflare: Is there anything else anyone wants to add to the discussion. I have the idea we are drifting away from it.
[13:02] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov): just wondering about how changes in here might impact RL
[13:03] Carla (cyberspy): It's still behavior modification, so it will affect in RL as well.
[13:03] Fawn Starflare: It depends on the relationship. Some of my girls want me to take the relationship into real life.
[13:04] Fawn Starflare: Sometimes that just means me taking over their self bondage, directing it so it feels like I am the one doing the binding.
[13:04] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov) nods
[13:04] Fawn Starflare: However, for a few of my girls, toy, in particular, the changes in RL are more profound.
[13:05] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov): Greetings Miss San :)
[13:05] ღ Chrisa Romanov ღ (chrisa.zifer) smiles huge...hello Miss San
[13:05] Fawn Starflare: The slave training they receive results in treating those they meet with more respect and courtesy and things like this
[13:05] San Mauvaise: hi everyone
[13:05] Fawn Starflare: Welcome San
[13:06] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov): yes, several things i learned immediately...respectful address and how to be quiet in meetings...
[13:07] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov): tho i apparently need more work on meetings
[13:07] Fawn Starflare: Oo! Big changes!
[13:07] ღ Chrisa Romanov ღ (chrisa.zifer) tries to hide a smile
[13:07] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov) blushes
[13:08] Fawn Starflare: Before we close, let me speak on one other point in the discussion on the placard.
[13:10] Fawn Starflare: In the conversation toy references something I have said to my girls, that I desire them to learn to be companions, to be able to converse and become comfortable conversing. This goes further than simply learning to anticipate my needs.
[13:12] Fawn Starflare: I may be unusual in the desire for my girls to be companions, but the relationships are based in love and caring as well as dominance, and when we're alone I want more than a silent, kneeling girl.
[13:12] TÁRA (kentara.rexen): Ditto!
[13:13] Fawn Starflare: Are we two the only ones who feel this way?
[13:14] TÁRA (kentara.rexen): I assume not.
[13:14] San Mauvaise: er in the wish for one's girls to be companions?
[13:14] San Mauvaise: no
[13:14] Brenda Connolly: Sometimes I wish my kneeling WAS more silent
[13:14] Brenda Connolly grins at Etherea
[13:14] Etherea Serendipity: Probably. I talk Mistress to death. I imagine she can't wait for me to shut up half the time.
[13:14] Fawn Starflare: Hahahahaha
[13:14] Etherea Serendipity: See, told ya :)
[13:14] Etherea Serendipity: The other half of the time she just gags me.
[13:14] San Mauvaise: but do you mean companions in the sense of anticipate every wish?
[13:14] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov): i believe Miss San has said that a domme doesn't always want to domme...is that what you're referring to?
[13:14] San Mauvaise smiles at etherea
[13:15] TÁRA (kentara.rexen): You don't have to have your subs to make you laugh. That's what your friends are for.
[13:15] Etherea Serendipity: Sorry, Mistress, I can't even anticipate my own needs half the time. Good luck figuring out how to get me to divine yours. :)
[13:15] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov): eep
[13:15] San Mauvaise: I must say that all my best subs were also friends
[13:15] Brenda Connolly: If my girls can't make me laugh, they are of no use to me.
[13:16] Fawn Starflare: Well I guess this is a more complex issue.
[13:16] Brenda Connolly agrees with San. "This one here IS my best friend"
[13:16] Fawn Starflare: I cannot get toy to talk at all 95% of the time.
[13:16] San Mauvaise: Try the rack that will make them talk! <evil laugh>
[13:16] San Mauvaise: oopps
[13:16] Fawn Starflare: The gag is there because we both like the look and how it feels/makes her feel.
[13:17] Etherea Serendipity: Give her a phone book and tell her to start reading.
[13:17] Mermaid Stormcrow smiles
[13:17] Fawn Starflare: Yes, San, but is the information reliable??
[13:17] Etherea Serendipity: It is if you waterboard her while she's on it.
[13:17] San Mauvaise grins at Fawn
[13:17] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov): eek
[13:17] San Mauvaise: sorry have sidetracked the conversation with a bad joke
[13:18] Fawn Starflare: A little bit of the sadist peeking out.
[13:18] Fawn Starflare: Toy has worked long and hard to release my inner sadist.
[13:18] San Mauvaise looks innocent
[13:18] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov) giggles
[13:18] Fawn Starflare: Now she is reaping what she has sown.
[13:21] Fawn Starflare: Ok, I concede my desire for companions has more to do with my own loneliness and bouts of hypo-mania and depression the medications cannot control.
[13:21] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov): interesting how just in this room Dommes agree on their roles perhaps and not on the role of the sub/slave
[13:21] Fawn Starflare: Toy and my other girls are a very real comfort.
[13:21] Fawn Starflare: And they seem to enjoy when I take it out on them and even encourage me to do so.
[13:22] Etherea Serendipity: That's because we all have different ways of giving dommes the illusion that they're in control and not the other way around.
[13:22] Fawn Starflare: hahahahaha
[13:22] Brenda Connolly chuckles
[13:23] Etherea Serendipity: I wasn't speaking of us, of course, Mistress. You control the horizontal. You control the vertical.
[13:23] Fawn Starflare: Etherea, keep in mind, that's only possible when the domme cares about what you think and say. Otherwise it does not happen.
[13:24] TÁRA (kentara.rexen): Some subs don't have the luxury of having opinions.
[13:24] Fawn Starflare: It's a function of consensual slavery and the slave's option of simply removing her collar (in virtual worlds).
[13:24] Fawn Starflare: Very true.
[13:24] San Mauvaise: Isn't it the case that in any real relationship of any length of time, there is *effectively* some control with both parties?
[13:24] Etherea Serendipity: Of course, but like you just said, the reverse is also true.
[13:25] San Mauvaise: Whatever the official form might be
[13:25] Fawn Starflare: "official"???
[13:25] Etherea Serendipity: In our case we're probably a little unusual. We're all equals in our relationship.
[13:25] San Mauvaise: as in obstensive
[13:25] Fawn Starflare: Who's the official or ruling body,
[13:25] Etherea Serendipity: Only it's an 'Animal Farm' kind of equal. All pigs are equal, but some are more equal than others.
[13:26] Fawn Starflare: There you go.
[13:26] San Mauvaise: for example the agreement between them, or the narrative they use to characterise their relationship
[13:27] Denise Diesel standing in a corner, observing.... Subs/Domes, what the heck. The only thing she disapproves are switches.
[13:27] Denise Diesel was talking out of subject again :-( Well it was something that bothered me
[13:28] San Mauvaise: Why disapprove of switches Denise?
[13:30] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov): i'm a subbie, but this one likes me domming... but i don't think of myself as a switch... just confused
[13:30] San Mauvaise laughs
[13:30] ღ Chrisa Romanov ღ (chrisa.zifer) grins and lays my head on your shoulder
[13:31] San Mauvaise: well many feel dominant with respect to one person and submissive to another, that seems fine to me
[13:31] ღ Chrisa Romanov ღ (chrisa.zifer): yup
[13:31] Brenda Connolly: Some of us just flip a coin every morning when they wake up
[13:31] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov): oooo
[13:31] Etherea Serendipity: I think it's a continuum for most people.
[13:31] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov): voila
[13:31] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov): some are hard core
[13:32] Etherea Serendipity: I'm mostly sub, but every now and then Mistress gets careless with her keys.
[13:32] San Mauvaise: yes selena used to switch a lot... claimed that 90% of Dommes were in fact switches, but many secretly
[13:32] San Mauvaise: and she effectively had done a large "survey" - laughs
[13:32] Brenda Connolly: Where's the fun in being a Secret Switch?
[13:32] Denise Diesel: My point of view is, you either have a dominant mind. You want to rule, ahum. Or the submisssive role, "let it happen"
[13:32] ღ Chrisa Romanov ღ (chrisa.zifer): lol...you too?? i'm in a constant state of arousal with you love
[13:32] ღ Chrisa Romanov ღ (chrisa.zifer): lolol..yikes
[13:32] Denise Diesel: But as we all know, the sub always win
[13:33] Brenda Connolly: I disagree we have to be one or the other
[13:33] San Mauvaise: I think some are pretty permanently one or the other, but others are not and there is no harm in that
[13:33] Denise Diesel: and now I come to agreement with myself...;-)
[13:34] Denise Diesel: the sub is the one in charge
[13:34] Denise Diesel: okie, she can switch
[13:34] San Mauvaise: how do you mean Denise?
[13:35] Etherea Serendipity: We were just discussing why it's ok for me to chain Brenda to the bondage horse and do whatever I want sometimes.
[13:35] San Mauvaise grins
[13:35] Brenda Connolly raises her eyebrow
[13:35] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov): eek
[13:35] Fawn Starflare: Speaking of switching ....
[13:36] Etherea Serendipity: I mean hypothetically, of course.
[13:36] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov): *coughs
[13:36] Fawn Starflare: When I first came to SL it was to be a slave as Owner a couple of decades I had never found a Domme. Everyone wanted to sub to me.
[13:37] Fawn Starflare: So there I was a slave, on my knees in front of My mistress and I had a slave on leash!
[13:37] San Mauvaise smiles
[13:37] Carla (cyberspy): Sounds good
[13:37] Denise Diesel loves to hear the young ones talk ;-)
[13:37] Fawn Starflare: I've never had a problem serving one and doming others at the same time. It's not like they were going to forget who was in charge or think less of me for my being on my knees.
[13:38] San Mauvaise nods
[13:38] Brenda Connolly: Agreed
[13:38] Denise Diesel: true
[13:38] Etherea Serendipity: Exactly. Even when Mistress lets me turn the tables I still know who is really in charge (me), and it doesn't diminish her authority one iota.
[13:39] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov): o0
[13:39] Denise Diesel: what did I say?
[13:39] San Mauvaise: I am sorry that I came late, Fawn, but can you explain what you mean by a "slave"? - someone you could sell to someone else?
[13:40] Fawn Starflare: I am enjoying being domme only mostly because toy somehow fills that need for me, (voyeuristically?) and it frees me to be domme-only with hunger pangs to switch.
[13:40] Brenda Connolly: I think she means someone with no choice in their destiny
[13:40] Fawn Starflare: Yes, Brenda
[13:40] San Mauvaise: including being sold to someone else?
[13:41] TÁRA (kentara.rexen): Some slaves are bought and sold.
[13:41] Denise Diesel: sold, sold
[13:41] TÁRA (kentara.rexen): Yes.
[13:41] San Mauvaise: hmmmm
[13:41] Denise Diesel: we are not talking about slaves, here, I hope
[13:41] TÁRA (kentara.rexen): They are all different facets of BDSM.
[13:41] San Mauvaise: well I *think* not real slaves Denise
[13:42] Denise Diesel: we Dutch have a bad reputation with slaves ;-)
[13:42] Etherea Serendipity: Although those come in handy if you've still got some cotton in the back 40 that needs pickin'.
[13:42] TÁRA (kentara.rexen): It's kind of like regular yogurt and Greek yogurt.
[13:42] Denise Diesel: a submissive girl is not a slave
[13:42] TÁRA (kentara.rexen): Different, similar, both yummy.
[13:42] Etherea Serendipity: Cause let's face it, slavery gets stuff done.
[13:42] Fawn Starflare: In SL, the buying and selling of slaves is the fulfilment of a fantasty and the need to feel the frission of not knowing who will buy and why.
[13:42] San Mauvaise: yes I agree Denise
[13:42] Fawn Starflare: It's a form of Kidnap fantasy in a way.
[13:43] San Mauvaise: but a fantasy
[13:43] Brenda Connolly: It is
[13:43] Denise Diesel: it should be
[13:43] TÁRA (kentara.rexen): It's from wanting to be property, used.
[13:43] Fawn Starflare: We did discuss this earlier, Denise. We all agree on that
[13:43] Etherea Serendipity: I think that's why the auction was so popular.
[13:43] Denise Diesel: yes Tara, but now being misused
[13:44] TÁRA (kentara.rexen): Sometimes, misuse is desired by the sub, sometimes Dommes get out of hand.
[13:44] Denise Diesel: I meant the latter
[13:44] Fawn Starflare nods, "of course."
[13:44] San Mauvaise: the trouble with the term "slave" is that it is often used as an excuse for relationship failure by the Domme - as in "they were not a proper slave" etc.
[13:44] Denise Diesel: I never had a slave
[13:45] TÁRA (kentara.rexen): I've been and owned slaves.
[13:45] Denise Diesel: I treat my girls as friends
[13:45] TÁRA (kentara.rexen): It's different than a girl on a leash with light bondage.
[13:45] San Mauvaise nods
[13:45] Denise Diesel: I shop with them
[13:45] San Mauvaise: with them not for them? heheheh
[13:46] Brenda Connolly: I make mine shop for me
[13:46] TÁRA (kentara.rexen): That is a pretty great trick Brenda.
[13:46] Etherea Serendipity: Arbeit macht frei!
[13:46] Carla (cyberspy): Mine are companions, pets, ponies, friends. We do lots of activities together.
[13:47] Brenda Connolly: Well they like to shop to begin with
[13:47] Denise Diesel: at home, they go to their opposite corners and wait what will happen. I would never abuse them. Why? The girls will go as far as THEY want. and if they disagree, they're gone. And who can blame them?
[13:47] San Mauvaise nods
[13:47] San Mauvaise: there are certainly those that want the fantasy of being a slave, but almost none who would want the reality
[13:47] ღ Ţєşşa ღ (tessaromanov): they don't consider that there might be a different point of view?
[13:47] Fawn Starflare: Ah, so there is another who desires her girls to be companions. Now I don't feel odd girl out!
[13:48] Brenda Connolly: There is nothing wrong with wanting a slave fantasy fufilled. SL is where fantasies can be realized...
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